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Episode 64: Constant Improvement with Allison Miles

When you follow what you love, everything will fall into place.

This week we speak with Allison Miles, Community & Content Manager at Ruffwear! Allison shares her transition from the law profession to the outdoor industry, the unique aspects of representing four-legged customers, and how Halloween at Ruffwear is the best day of the year. Allison also gives some advice for receiving creative feedback and how she blends her personality into her work.

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Episode Transcript

Lisa: Hey Iris, what is a ghost’s favorite ride at an amusement park?

Iris: I don't know, what?

Lisa: The rollerghoster. [laughs] Hey, Iris.

Iris: Hey what?

Lisa: What position on a hockey team does a monster play?

Iris: What?

Lisa: Ghoulie. [laughs] Hey, Iris.

Iris: [laughs] What?

Lisa: What did one dog say to the other?

Iris: What?

Lisa: Happy howl-o-ween!

Iris: Oh my gosh. Is it Halloween?

Lisa: It's Halloween! And we get to talk about dogs.

Iris: What a great combination.

Lisa: So what I did there?

Iris: Yes, welcome to Outside by Design everyone. Happy Halloween from Iris…

Lisa: and Lisa.

Iris: ...coming at you from Wheelie. And today for Halloween, we have Allison Miles on the show, and she is the Community and Content Manager at Ruffwear. So dogs, Halloween costumes, Allison Miles. This is an amazing episode.

Lisa: Let's do it.

Lisa: Hey, Alli, thank you so much for being here today. I'm excited you're here.

Allison: Thank you for having me. I am super excited to be here as well.

Lisa: And the very first question we ask everyone is to describe where they are and what they're looking at.

Allison: Um. I am at the Ruffwear office. I'm at work. And I am in a meeting room called the Alvord and it's named for the Alvord desert in Eastern Oregon. And it's this really beautiful place where there's a, there's a Playa, like a big empty Lake bed. And, um, this,, it's this really rugged area where it can be extremely... it's all the weather extremes. Thunderstorms roll in really fierce. It gets snow in June. It's kind of this wild place, but there's also hot Springs and, um, it's, it's therapeutic as well. And so this conference room or meeting room that I'm in at Ruffwear is inspired by that and it has this beautiful, um, photo image that covers one wall and there's a couch and all these desert inspired things. So it's very relaxing room. So that's where I am and I am looking at the image right now that shows a desert landscape with some rugged mountains in the background that are sort of socked in a stormy cloud type of setting. But there's also some sunlight coming through and there's some snow on the mountains. So, um, it's... It's a nice connection to the outdoors while, uh, being in an office.

Lisa: Nice. I've heard tremendously good things about working at Ruffwear.

Allison: It is a great place to work, and I'm excited to share more about it. I love it here. I've been here, um, almost four years.

Lisa: Nice. And your official job title there is…

Allison: My official job title is Community and Content Manager. And what that means is... the content side of things. Our team is a social... social media and ambassador coordinator and a copywriter and then me. And we, um, we write, obviously all the storytelling, and I, and I plan our editorial calendar and sort of our big overarching brand stories. And then the community side of things is our brand partnerships, namely with the Conservation Alliance and Best Friends Animal Society. Um, two of our key components of giving back are around conservation and outdoor recreation, and then dog adoption. So I manage those partnerships.

Lisa: Oh, sweet. This is going to be fun. We all are just obsessed with dogs around here. I'm looking at my dog right now. He's a golden retriever, but yeah, I'm excited to talk to you. Let's... let's back into it and, and kind of get a backstory on you. How did, like, just tell us about yourself and how you ended up in Bend working at Ruffwear.

Allison: Yeah. I've been in Bend... I just, uh, I hit my 10 year anniversary in, well, in Bend and in Oregon, this year. I grew up in Pennsylvania and, um, not really a whole lot to say about that. [laughs] I did sports and we grew up, um, I have a sister, and we grew up near, uh, the Appalachian mountains. So the Appalachian trail was a part of my, my upbringing, going hiking and that sort of thing. Um, and then I went to school back East, both undergrad and then law school. And by the time I was finishing law school at age 25, I had come out to Oregon with my dad. His brothers both live here. Um, and we had come to Bend... actually I should back up a little bit. We came to Bend, I had an uncle living here when I was in college and my dad and I came out for two weeks and the first day that we got here, I overdosed on caffeine from... we hit all the drive through espresso stands driving over the pass. [laughs] So and then we basically spent two weeks, um, just getting after it. Mountain biking. I went on my first overnight backpacking trip. I got blisters on my feet. We did more backpacking after that. That was the first time I saw snow in August up at Crater Lake. And it, it just blew my mind that this was something that existed and that this was a place. And, um, I was totally hooked. So I went back to Pennsylvania, finished school, went to law school, and by the time I was finishing law school I was like, I need to be in Oregon.

So I moved out. As soon as I finished my exams. I didn't stay for graduation. I just booked it. My dad did the cross country road trip with me and, um, we had a blast driving out to Oregon and we went camping when we got here. Well, we camped pretty much the whole way out here. And then, um, the first night... I had, like, I initially moved to Portland and, um, had a Craigslist roommate who ended up being this totally awesome woman who became my friend. And we, we basically showed up at her townhouse, unloaded all my gear into the garage, all my stuff, and then went out to Mount hood and camped that night out at Mount hood in the rain. And it was fun.

So that was my, my journey to Oregon. And then I took the Bar exam out here and, um, that was 2009. So that was the kind of the beginning of the recession. And I had a really hard time finding work. I had no professional connections, but I was also so happy to be in Oregon and I was just kind of trying to figure out how to stay here. And also I needed to start making money.

And I ended up getting a job in Prineville, which is this really small town a little bit Northeast of Bend, and... I was just applying to every single job that I could find and I, I got a call back and an invitation for an interview at this little partnership in a law practice in Prineville. And I Google Mapped it and I was like, oh, yeah, okay, that's near Bend, I think I've driven through here before. I'll, I'll do it. And I interviewed and I got the job and practiced law for two years in Prineville, which I was... I was doing a criminal defense and, um, Prineville is nothing at all like Bend. Um, it's very rural, a mill town, a ranching town, logging. It was a, a depressed town in 2009. It's bounced back, uh, since then, but it was... a lot of my clients were out of work and it was tough. And I did that for two years.

And there were things that I did love about it, um, I loved the, the intellectual challenge and... there's more creative, uh, there's more creativity to law practice then people might think. And so I loved the creative element of it, but... eventually I wasn't happy, and I was looking outside of law and trying to just be really broad in what I could do next. And, um, actually my boss at the law practice encouraged me to look elsewhere and, um, and blend my... my love for the outdoors with the skillset that I had.

And, um, and that's what I ended up doing. I first got a job as a copywriter at AllTrek, um, which was based in Redmond. It was an online outdoor retailer. It's since gone out of business. Um, but I worked there as a copywriter and I was like, I'm writing gear descriptions all day. Like, this is awesome. I loved it. I can be creative, I can write, I can talk about outdoor stuff, I can talk about all kinds of gear. So I did that, but that company, even when I joined, they were, um, they were laying people off and it was a sinking ship. Um... and so from there, I got a job at Hydro Flask, which at the time in 2013 was a startup, and it was… it was only four years old at that point. They just celebrated their 10 year anniversary.

Um, and I moved into more of a broader marketing role and I was there for a couple of years. And then, um, it was getting a little bit... I felt pigeonholed into social media, which I liked doing, but I didn't love it. And, um, so I was kind of figuring out how do I, how do I not get stuck doing social media? Cause it's not, it's not what really gets me fired up each day. So I saw the position opening with Ruffwear, which is actually on the same block as Hydro Flask. And I threw my name in the hat and- and got the job. And, um, yeah. And so that's been the past, almost four years.

Lisa: Oh, nice. How, how did you handle that transition throughout, um, you know, being, being a lawyer to kind of like trusting that it would all work out and now having this awesome job at Ruffwear like... was that stressful or did you just kind of feel like, okay, it's gonna work out?

Allison: Oh my gosh. It was so stressful. Yeah, it was both. I, it, it was incredibly challenging wondering, what am I doing? Is this the right thing? It definitely felt like a risk. Um, my parents were like... they thought I was crazy at first when I quit my law practice. And, and for years, even now, people still ask me when they find out I have a law degree, well, do you think you're ever going to go like practice law again? And it's like, heck no! Um, you know, like that was a... that was a very, um, important part of my life, I think, in shaping me into who I am now. But, um, yeah, I think, um…. And you know, through it all, there were definitely moments where I would, I would know that I'm not totally happy here. And not, you know, and I say totally happy, like… I’m not totally happy all the time, 100% of the time, like nobody is. There's always those questions and those doubts. But I knew that... this wasn't the career I wanted, at various points. But I, I didn't always know what I, what I did want. And that was really hard… um, and I felt like at many times there were a lot of different directions that I could go in my career and be happy so that, you know, that can be empowering, but that can also be really challenging. ‘Cause then it's like, well, how do I know if I'm going in the right direction?

I think to try to get back to your question, it was definitely stressful, um, it was terrifying at times, but there was a part of me that always knew that I was on the right track and that if I keep following, pursuing the things that I love to do, that I would end up in the right place.

Lisa: Yeah. And now dogs can't talk, so you get to speak for them.

Allison: Yeah. It's great. [laughs] I've written blog stories from, you know, written by a dog, written by my dog. [laughs] It’s fun.

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Iris: So career changes are really stressful, Lisa and Allison kind of jumped out of law not necessarily knowing where she was going to land, but I love that she says she knew that if she followed the things that she loves, she would end up in the right place.

Lisa: That's right.

Iris: A lot of people, and we've interviewed quite a few who started out in totally different careers but always wanted to end up in the outdoor industry. And so if you're out there and you're listening to this, and maybe you're not doing something that brings you joy or that you love, maybe think about taking that leap. It'll be scary. But like Allison said, if you follow something that you love. You'll end up in the right place. So now Allison is in the outdoor industry where she belongs, and let's hear more about her work at Ruffwear.

Lisa: And you know, what is that like to represent a demographic that kindof, you know, doesn't know what the word demographic is?

Allison: Right! [laughs] You know, there's, there's... it's fun. Because when you look at dogs and you watch them, they are going to do whatever meets their, either their immediate need or their impulse. So there's a lot of fun things and, um, you know, they're not, they're not taking life too seriously. They're, they're getting their needs met, but they're not overthinking it. And, and that's just a good reminder. It's a good approach to creative things in general, I think.

And, um, yeah... it's, it's fun to think about, well, how would a dog view this… this jacket, or this activity, or this piece of gear, or this adventure, or misadventure. Yeah, it's fun.

Lisa: That's awesome. So the word of the month on the podcast right now is purpose. And you are closing out the month of October for us. So when you, when you hear the word purpose, what, what do you think of?

Allison: I think of, um, being intentional and prioritizing and having a focus, and having all of those things tied to your values. And so for me personally, my, my purpose is... it's tied to my love for the outdoors, my love for writing, my need to be creative, my need to feel healthy and strong and connected to people.

And so with that, you know, that theme of purpose, then I can tie into, what am I prioritizing in my life? Well, it's getting outside. It's spending time with the people I love. It's doing good work, doing the best I can. And giving myself the time and the energy to devote to making those things happen, to making those priorities in my life. So that's what it, that's what it means to me personally.

And then it's also a really special word here at Ruffwear, because we talk about purpose a lot, all the time, in everything we do. And we talk about our true North, and, um, what does that mean? And we ask ourselves whether what we're doing is tied to our values and where we want to be. Um, and it's a neat, it's a really neat way of approaching business, and it's not, um, something that I had really experienced before. But I've actually been hearing a lot of similar conversations lately. And I was at a creative conference, um, over the weekend, and I went to a workshop that was a, a panel of five women who were owners of creative agencies. And they all talked about a moment in their… their owning a business or their career where they decided or they realized that - I don't have to work with anyone I want. I don't have to take on a client just because they're offering me the business. I can choose to work with clients based on values, alignment.

And I thought that that was really powerful. And I don't think that you need to be successful in business or in life before you take that approach. I don't think you need to be like, Oh, now that our business is up and running, I can start doing things the way I want. I think that, um, doing things according to your personal values and your vision and your passions is living with purpose.

Lisa: Absolutely. I love that. Here at Wheelie we have an actual, we call it the fun-o-meter. And, uh, we only work with clients that land on the fun-o-meter in, in... the clients who land in kind of like the orange or yellow who want to tip into the green area of the fun-o-meter. Um, because yeah, that's what, that's what we believe and we believe in enjoying life and realizing that the outdoor industry is such a place of privilege and that we're not saving lives. We're not doctors or firefighters. And what we do is fun, so…

Allison: Yep. I love that. I love that. Yeah. We say similar things at, at Ruffwear. We have to remind ourselves, ‘cause, you know, I think that so many of us are perfectionists and we want to... we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to put our best work out there. And that's, that's great, I mean, that's we have that drive, but at the same time. We, yeah. We remind ourselves we're not saving lives. We are, we're making gear for dogs. Like, this should be fun.

Lisa: Yes. Seriously. Seriously. Speaking of fun, um, today's Halloween when this podcast comes out. And, and I hear Halloween is a big deal at Ruffwear, huh?

Allison: Halloween is a very big deal at Ruffwear, um, some of the past parties that we've had that... basically we all come to work in our costumes and then a full day party ensues from there, um, with games and tricks and treats and all of that. Um, and two years ago, we, um, in our office space, we had this warehouse that we've since built out into additional office space, but we had this extra empty warehouse space and we built out this like huge, um, haunted hallway with... we got… there were the giant racks that used to hold all of our product when it was, when we were using that space as a warehouse. And so we had the big empty racks and we, we made this tunnel and, uh, wrapped it all in Visqueen so it was completely dark. And yeah, we basically, we just built out this really creepy, terrifying haunted hallway, um, that people had to go through to enter the party.

Um, so that was a couple of years ago. And then, uh... last year the building was under construction, so we actually rented out this, um, mansion in Bend for a day. Like, this... I think this home had been on like a tour of homes or like architecture shows or that sort of thing. It's this beautiful, huge mansion on the outskirts of Bend, and we contacted the, um, property management company and we were like, uh, we're from Ruffwear, can we rent this for a day for a Halloween party? We promise we won't trash it. We just, we need a place. And they were like, we love Ruffwear! Yeah, sure. And they like cut us a deal, which was awesome.

And we set up this Clue murder mystery party. Um, so a handful of us that organize the whole thing went ahead of time and got everything set up, and then everybody else who was at the office in their costumes started getting these clues. And it put them on to teams that gave them a map and they ended up at this… this huge house. And then we staged this whole, like, murder mystery thing. And everyone had to work in their teams to solve it and it was really fun.

Lisa: That sounds super fun.

Allison: So yeah, that's the, that's kind of the scale. And actually I used to be on that, we call it the Wolfpack. Which is, um, sort of the party planning committee. And I used to be part of that. But I stepped down at the end of last year to give somebody else a chance. So I'm, I have no idea what's in store for this year's Halloween. So when this podcast goes out, everybody will be being surprised by what's happening.

Lisa: Cool. Cool. What's your favorite aspect of your job at Ruffwear?

Allison: My favorite aspect is, um, getting to work with the people here. I'm so impressed every day by the talent and the passion and the skill that people bring to work, um, and the genuine friendships. Um, and yeah, that's, that's my favorite part. And then of course, the dogs, they go hand in hand with the people. There's, um, almost as many dogs in the office as people, so lots of personalities. Um, and they're just a great constant reminder of why, why we're all here.

Lisa: That's cool. It's so nice to have coworkers that you like as human beings, too.

Allison: Yeah.

Lisa: Um, a lot of, a lot of people on the podcast… or, a lot of people who listen to this podcast are in a similar position as you, where they're brand managers or marketing managers or something. Um, and a conversation that comes up often is how you balance your personal ideas and goals for the direction of the brand with those of management or investors, or however your company is structured. So how do you, like, I don’t know, what do you think of in that subject?

Allison: Yeah. Um, well. We're lucky here at Ruffwear, and I'm lucky here at Ruffwear, because we are privately owned, so we don't have to answer to a board or to investors. We do have to get buy in from our leadership team, but there's a lot of trust. And I think, um, cultivating that trust helps. And then it's not like, it's not like every idea or project we need to like, create this big deck and persuade people sitting in a board room. It's not, you know, it's just like, we toss ideas out there all the time. We have brainstorming sessions all the time. Um, we see what ideas get people really fired up. Um, that helps things float to the top. Also, where... we really try to be strategic. Um, and, and what that means is, you know, we have, like, our yearly goals that we set as a company. And then we... each quarter we break those down into quarterly goals and then they're also broken down to each month.

And so one, um, check that we have is how do these ideas, these projects tie to our monthly, quarterly, or yearly goals? And that's kind of the first filter, is this moving what we say are our priorities as a company? Is this going to help move them forward? And that's kind of step one.

And then as far as like, my own personal creative ideas, I tend to blend a lot of my, my personal passions and my personality into my writing. And, um, and - and who I am and the ideas that I come up with. But it all goes through a team, and so I think everyone's pretty thoughtful about checking each other and saying, you know, that seems a little off, or, um, maybe this should, could be tweaked. And that sounds more like Ruffwear. So that sort of thing, and just being really open to that feedback, um, that, that helps a lot too.

Lisa: Yeah, was that - I mean, I'm sure with a law degree you got to practice giving and receiving feedback.

Allison: Yes. [laughs] Absolutely. And I love it. I love that process.

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Iris: Halloween at Ruffwear, Lisa, that sounds amazing.

Lisa: Do you like Halloween?

Iris: Yeah, it's up there in my top holidays.

Lisa: What's your best Halloween costume of all time?

Iris: Of all time? One time I was an old lady and like probably when I was six or seven and I had glasses and I had like a purse from my great grandmother and it was filled with like hard candies. And I had like a shawl and everything and the adults really thought that was hilarious ‘cause I was a pretty compelling old lady.

Lisa: That's good. I, it was the laziest child for Halloween costumes of all... like, I was so apathetic toward Halloween. I was a clown every single year. I would just put on the same clown shoes and like a clown wig and just go to school. It'd be like, here I am in a costume.

Iris: See, I never did that. I did something different every year.

Lisa: Yeah. I have a twin sister and she would go all out. And I would just be like, have you seen my clown shoes? Like the morning of. I believe Halloween is an enthusiastic day here at Wheelie, as well as Ruffwear, except for me because I'm corporate and boring.

Iris: Yeah.

Lisa: But you know, having fun is part of the Wheelie culture.

Iris: It certainly sounds like it's part of the Ruffwear culture.

Lisa: Yeah.

Iris: Also having a lot of dogs there.

Lisa: Luckies.

Iris: And I think a lot of the outdoor industry has just really fun work cultures, and that's part of the draw to the outdoor industry because we have fun. We work hard. And we like to play outside. With dogs.

Lisa: And now I'm compelled to get like 22 more dogs, more golden retrievers.

Iris: I think we definitely should. Let's get back to Allison.

Lisa: What's your, what's your tip for other people in your shoes, um, for giving and receiving feedback?

Allison: Oh, um, I think... this is great ‘cause I'm about to go into, um, some training that will hopefully help me be better at this, communicating clearly. But I think, um, keeping it non-personal, um, whether you're giving or receiving and trying to be as specific and as clear as possible. Um, you know, for example... It's not helpful to say, “Oh, I don't think that story is a good idea.” Um, but it is helpful to say, “this feels a little off-brand because…” blah, blah, blah. What about tweaking it to this instead, that ties a little bit more to who we are as a company or as a brand?

I think that, yeah, clear is kind, being as clear as possible. Um, and then especially on the receiving end, not taking it personally and knowing that the feedback is for... it's, you know, assuming good intentions and then the feedback is, is going to result in something better for everyone and trusting that. And if someone has feedback and they think that I can do better, that's great. That's an opportunity for me to do better, for me to, to put better work out there for Ruffwear, um, and it's going to, even if it's challenging me, I'm going to learn something. And just looking at it really positively as a, as a learning opportunity.

Lisa: Yeah. That growth mindset.

Allison: Yeah, exactly.

Lisa: That's really, really wonderful advice. Um... I know a lot of our listeners are creatives, like photographers, um, you know, and their whole world is based on giving and receiving feedback too. So that's valuable.

Allison: Yeah. And it's, you know, it's scary to put your work out there and, uh, and not know how it's going to be received. And then if you do get feedback, it's easy to think, Oh, I missed the mark. Oh, I failed. Oh, I, I didn't do it right. I didn't do it good enough. And, um, it's easy to only hear that. But yeah, just keeping that growth mindset and flipping it on the positive and, and hearing the feedback for what it is, and- and looking for that next opportunity to- to keep improving and knowing that we're all on this path of constant improvement.

Lisa: Oof. Yeah, we are. [Allison laughs] Awesome. And is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you think our audience needs to know?

Allison: Do you want to know what I'm going to be for Halloween?

Lisa: Yes.

Allison: I'm going to be a Hobbit.

Lisa: Yes!

Allison: I'm really excited. I've asked my mom to sew me a cloak, so she's working on that.

Lisa: Is your dog going to be involved in this costume?

Allison: Um, maybe I haven't figured that part out yet. He, he usually is, but we'll see.

Lisa: Cute. How many dogs show up to work at Ruffwear every day?

Allison: Um, probably in like the 20 to 30 range.

Lisa: What!?

Allison: Maybe 30 is a little high. [laughs]

Lisa: What!!

Allison: Yeah. Maybe more like 15 to 20.

Lisa: Where do they, what do they do all day?

Allison: They all have beds. Um, most of the beds are under desks. And, uh, or next to desks. And they, they lay on their beds. And they bark when the UPS guy comes, or the FedEx guy. Uh, but they're all, uh, they're all really well-adjusted to each other and to office life. And, um, they're, they're really quiet and relaxed and, uh, we have a big open office space, so they, I think that they all just, um. They just get used to, to what happens when they come to work and what's expected. And we have a little dog park outside where they get to go out and run around and take breaks. But yeah, they let us know when, when a visitor comes or visiting dog. But yeah, they're, they're great. They’re great to have here. They're definitely as much a part of the Ruffwear office and culture as any of the humans. So.

Lisa: That's amazing. That's way more dogs - I was expecting you to be like, five.

Allison: We probably have, I don't- we've hired quite a few people, um, so I'm not actually sure exactly how many humans we have in the office. I think it's like in the mid forties. Um, and now on any given day, yeah. I mean, probably at least 20 dogs. [laughs]

Lisa: Unbelievable. That's so awesome.

Allison: Yeah.

Lisa: Wow. I love that. And then how you honor your role as a community and content manager and being able to speak for a brand and organize a community, what do you look for when you're crafting a community?

Allison: Oh, that's a great question. You know, community is all about connection and finding common ground to connect with people. Um, I think that's a starting point. Like find one way to connect with one person and then finding a way, you know, another way to connect with a second person and then figuring out how those first two people can connect with each other. And then you just build it out from there. Or maybe it's a finding values within or passions within a group that we all share and starting... starting on that common ground. Um, and digging into that and celebrating that. I think that that's kind of the foundation.

Lisa: That's fantastic. And I know that diversity, equity, and inclusion are a really big deal in the outdoor industry and in life right now. Do you guys try to equally represent all dog breeds?

Allison: [laughs] We do, you know, we, we definitely have some work to do. Um, sometimes we get, uh, feedback that we don't have enough small dogs in our photography. Um, but we, we've been working on that. Snd on a more serious note, that is a very important topic, and that's something that we've been incorporating into our strategy as a business of how do we... you know, Bend… Bend, like many mountain towns, it's a, it's very white. Um, and we, well, you know, we want... but it's not, it's not all white people. And of course, the outdoor industry is not all white people. Even though that the outside, it looks very white. And we are having a lot of conversations about how do we, um, diversify our- you know, starting internally, how do we diversify our, um, staff to represent our, the people that we speak to everyday, our customers? Um, and, you know, before we start putting- we, we want to put more diversity into our photography and our videos and all of that, but we also recognize that you can't just, like, start doing that with your photography without also looking inward. So, um, I think we're still at a place where we have a lot more questions than answers, but we're working on it.

And our, um, organizational development director, Heather McKendree, has been… this is like one of her main priorities. Um, so yeah, so that's kind of where we're at with that. We're excited and we want to have, you know, as much diversity as possible in every way, in every aspect, with, you know, other than just skin color and ethnicity. Um, we, you know, more geographies. Um, more perspectives, like all of those things. It's all, it's all good.

Lisa: Absolutely. And what I'm excited about with Ruffwear and that topic is that dogs can be used as a catalyst for connection and how universal the love of dogs is.

Allison: Absolutely. And, um, and how dogs - you know, we hear stories over and over again about how dogs are a catalyst to getting people outside, or a gateway to the outdoors. And I would love to dig into that more, you know, in the coming year or two. About how, you know, hearing more people's stories about how their dog plays a role in getting them outside. Um, and maybe- especially when it's people who didn't grow up going outdoors and maybe in adulthood they- they ended up with a dog in their life and then found themselves discovering the outdoors. I would love to hear, uh, from anybody with a story around that. Um, I think that there's a lot to unpack there.

Lisa: So cool. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast and, um... that was awesome. Where can people follow you?

Allison: Um, my Instagram handle is... Well, I'll spell it out. It's Alli Miles with a bunch of M's. Um, A-L-L-I-M-M-M-I-L-E-S.

Lisa: Cool.

Allison: And they'll see my dog Riggins on there quite a bit, cause he's…

Lisa: Riggins! Is he from Idaho?

Allison: He is not from Idaho, but he... well, I don't know where he's originally from. We rescued him when he was about six months old and he came with that name and already knew it. So, uh, it suits him very well. Um, he's my Border Collie and my adventure pal, and yeah, he's here with me now. I'm looking at him right now, so.

Lisa: Cute.

Allison: Yeah.

Lisa: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

Allison: Thank you. That was awesome.

Iris: Thanks so much for being here, Allison, and happy Halloween to all our amazing Outside by Design listeners! We would love to hear from our listeners and if you have the time, please go to iTunes or Apple podcasts and rate and review the show. Maybe drop your favorite Halloween related joke in your review. We'd love to hear what you guys think about the show.

Do you have any more jokes, Lisa?

Lisa: Why didn't the skeleton go to the ball?

Iris: Why?

Lisa: Because he had no body to go with.

Iris: [laughs]

Lisa: What's the most important subject a witch learns in school?

Iris: What?

Lisa: Spelling.

Iris: All right, and with that we'll see you guys next week on Outside by Design.

[music ends]

Lisa: What do ghosts use to wash their hair?

Iris: I don't know.

Lisa: ShamBOO.

Iris: Oh, no.

Lisa: [laughs] That's a bad one.

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