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Episode 99: Building a Legacy with Kristin Carpenter of Verde Brand Communications & Channel Mastery

"I have always been kind of used to working twice or three times as hard."

This week we're joined by Kristin Carpenter - founder/CEO of Verde Brand Communications and host of the Channel Mastery podcast. Kristin shares how she's changed over 20 years of owning her PR agency, her experience running a company as a woman and a mom, and how brand leaders can sign up for her Multi-Channel Marketing Academy. Kristin dives deep into personal evolution, the impacts of COVID, and thought leadership.

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Episode Transcript

Lisa: Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to our creative community. Thanks for being here.

Iris: Hello, all you creative people out there.

Lisa: Yeah. This is Lisa.

Iris: This is Iris.

Lisa: From wheelie and we're here.

Iris: Yes we are.

Lisa: Today is a cool episode. I really, really liked this episode. Did you enjoy editing it?

Iris: I definitely enjoyed editing it. I was taking notes, writing down as fast as I can, so I didn't forget anything she said.

Lisa: There were a lot of quotables. We have a powerhouse guest on the podcast today. Super excited to talk to Kristin Carpenter. And if you don't know Kristin, she owns Verde PR. She has owned it for like 20 years. She's a total badass.

She has the Channel Mastery podcast, which I've listened to for years. And then she also launched the Multi-Channel Marketing Academy, which is where specialty brands and business leaders, retailers, and entrepreneurs can enroll and sign up for workshops and learn strategic planning and budgeting for 2021. So a super cool conversation with Kristin about all these different things.

Iris: Yeah. This is a wonderful episode - gosh - for so many different types of people, brand managers, creatives, PR people, journalists, writers… Kristin used to be a journalist. There's so much information jam packed in a short episode.

Lisa: Yeah. And she... I have mad respect for Kristin because she is a mom. She's raised two kids. She talks about dropping her son off at college in Bozeman. You know, she has Verde PR with offices throughout the country and she's a cool human being. She's raced the Leadville 100. So she respects herself as an athlete... and just like mad respect for Kristin.

I really appreciate this episode because I don't get to speak to other agency owners very often. And Kristin talks about being a human being owning this company, shifting as the economy and marketing landscapes change, and kind of just her ability to maintain her thought leadership is super commendable. And I had a great time talking to her.

Iris: Let's get into it.

Lisa: Kristin. Thanks so much for being on the podcast today.

Kristin: Oh, I am stoked to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Lisa: I was sitting here thinking about what I want to talk to you about. And I have so many things on my little less here, but the very first question we ask everyone is where are you and what are you looking at?

Kristin: Oh, my goodness. It's so not exciting. So I'm in Durango, Colorado, which is sort of exciting, ‘cause it's my hometown and it's an awesome town. And thankfully, yeah, looking at clear air outside. It's, you know, right before... I guess it's middle of September. We've had lots of fires as everyone knows. So I'm grateful for that. Happy to be home.

And what am I looking at? I'm looking at my studio. [laughs] Because I’m in my studio, recording with you. And that's really not very exciting, but here I am. [laughs]

Lisa: Here you are. And so you've owned Verde - you started Verde PR like 20 years ago or something, right?

Kristin: Yeah, it'll be 20 years in 2021. So basically, let's round up.

Lisa: Wow.

Kristin: I know it's crazy. I was pregnant with my son and I just dropped him off at MSU up in Bozeman this summer.

Lisa: Oh!

Kristin: How's that for crazy?

Lisa: That is really crazy. He's going to have a great time there though.

Kristin: Yeah, he already is. And it was, you know, I was thinking back, like I literally launched Verde in my basement, like so many of us in this industry with whatever we're launching as entrepreneurs. And he was just sitting there in a little car seat next to me. [laughs]

Lisa: Oh my gosh.

Kristin: Yeah. He's been to every single show. Like literally every show, not that we're going to have shows anymore probably, but he got to go to all of them. So that was pretty rad.

Lisa: Wow. So, okay. So you started Verde PR after you were a journalist for a while, right, like a decade. And then... yeah. Why'd you start an agency?

Kristin: Oh, well, that's kinda a funny story, Lisa. So I was married to a big wall climber at the time, Jared Ogden. He climbed for the North Face’s team and, you know, was kind of flying all over the world. And when I was a journalist, I was really living the life. Like, it was kind of in the golden era where you'd pitch an idea and the next thing you know, you're on a plane to Europe. Like, it was awesome. And I love, love, loved freelance, you know, journalism. And I was also somehow… I don't know how I did this, but I had a quote “full-time” job with Outdoor Retailer Magazine, where I had a computer and healthcare.

And then I also had a pretty full time - in their opinion - contract with Shape Magazine as their gear and outdoor editor. And then I just freelanced my face off for like 20 to 30 publications on average a year. ‘Cause I used to get about that many 1099s. And so I was all over the place and having a great time.

And then I got pregnant and my husband at the time looked at me and was like, “well, babe, one of us has to deal.” [laughs] And I was just like, looking at, you know, like, “Oh, okay. I guess that's me because I'm carrying this awesome little human.” And so I thought to myself, “self, you know, what can you do?” And I just decided, like, why not do... you know, I was starting to realize that swinging for the fences and trying to get like features in Outside Magazine was not quite in my grasp yet. In order to do that, I had to really not care about like airing people's dirty laundry. And I had a really hard time with that because I cared so much about people. And I realized like maybe PR is better for me, frankly. You know? So I can serve and help and support people. I love to do strategy. And I still got to hang out with the same people, just in a different role. And so that's basically what I chose to do.

And it took off like wildfire because I kind of created an awesome agency that was basically the agency I wished existed when I was a journalist. So we were doing really fun events and I was really anticipatory in terms of what journalists needed at the time. And we've always kind of maintained that.

And I just, you know, kind of took my same approach to like... I loved selling. I mean, obviously I worked for just tons of magazines and I just sorta turned that into like, you know, great ideas for pitching and it just grew really fast. So I kind of knew that the universe had chucked a brick at my head, and it was time for me to do this, you know?

Lisa: And you're still doing it.

Kristin: Yes. Although it has, as you well know, it evolves constantly. This year… [laughs] I don’t even know if evolution is the right word to use anymore, it's just... I think reality is better. But yeah, I feel like people like us have trained for lots and lots of change. We live with it all the time, but yeah. This year has been a record setting change year, for sure. So I can't say I'm doing the same thing at all, but I am in the same company. [laughs]

Lisa: Here's a big question. And - so I've owned WHEELIE for 11 years - and I've watched myself change as a human being, like, drastically. And I'm still rocking this company that is quite frankly, way more irreverent than I am as a woman at this point in my life.

Kristin: I doubt that.

Lisa: [laughs] Well, do you ever find yourself growing and stretching and like... how have you changed as a woman over the last 20 years? And like, how do you bring your business along with you?

Kristin: That is a great question. And I'm not just saying that because you know how, when you ask people that question on a podcast, it gives them time to like, come up with an answer.

I've actually been thinking a ton, for about a year - so even before COVID - about being a female executive and a female founder in these spaces, and we're in the same spaces. Like, I love that your agency spans over the fake boundaries that outdoor bikes and snow sports have had with old time trade shows kind of know this belongs in this building and this belongs here. Like, it's all one consumer, right. And as I look at the business landscape... I have to tell you, you know, I grew up with all brothers. My two first clients were Metolius Climbing, which is still a client and they're like family to us, and La Sportiva. And I was one of very, very few women. Both companies have evolved to have lots more women. Okay.

But, you know, I just was comfortable with that. I was literally... my dad put me on the boys baseball team from age 8 to 12, because…. my dad played pro baseball. And he literally was like, you are not going to learn what you need to learn on a softball team. You need to play baseball. And I was like eight and terrified and like, what kind of message is that? And my dad is awesome, by the way, he's passed, but we had a great relationship and he didn't realize that that was like a very weird message to give me. But then he also told me out of three brothers, he's like, “gosh, it's such a shame you're a girl. Like you're, you're the best athlete out of the bunch”. And I would just look at him like hurt. Like what do you mean?

But like I have always been kind of used to working twice or three times as hard, Lisa. Not because anyone asked me to, but because I felt it was expected of me to have an equal seat at the table. And that was just something that I did. It's not something that I felt like after five times falling on my face, I better start doing. It was just like a humble work ethic, head down, you know, wanting to fit in with my family growing up. Like it just is who I was. And so I never really paid much attention to what was around me in that regard in these industries and markets and communities that we're in.

So now that I'm looking back at, you know, being a journalist for 10 years and owning this agency for 20, I'm like, really realizing that it's not an easy road when you're a female executive, it really isn't.

And I have felt, for the first time, pretty exhausted this year. Really exhausted, actually. And some of that I think comes from everything that we've been managing, but I think some of it also comes from a lot of the awareness that's was cropping up earlier in the year around the me too, movement and last year.

But then of course what's happening with the Black Lives Matter movement and so much of the other just underserved minorities, you know, wanting to feel safe and equal in different places in their lives, which they deserve. And I just, I think that's an interesting question. So one of the ways I've evolved is I've actually... now I have this awareness and I'm like, wow, where, where did this come from? Right?

Lisa: Yeah.

Kristin: And I have this beautiful 15 year old daughter, well she’ll be 15 in November. And she's watched me grow up and she's heard lots of different phone calls and, and also been to a lot of shows and heard me have conversations. And I've talked to her about it as well. And, you know, she's seen all of this. It's neat that she sees that I'm a path burner, but she's also seen that I've worked twice as hard and I haven't received the same retainers and I just... I think you can probably relate with some of that. And it's not a victim thing. It's just a factual thing I did, but creating awareness around it has made me want to make sure that before I exit stage left, that I really create a positive jumping off point to a big new level for women, frankly, in this space.

Lisa: Yeah. What's your idea around that?

Kristin: Well, I have a lot of ideas.

Lisa: I’m behind it. I’m into it.

Kristin: Here's one, like, I feel like every little piece helps. Okay. Especially during a time like this, when people are like managing so much change, I feel like there's a bonus and there's also a challenge to that. I have a lot of executives I work with and for who are male and white, and they also feel like they don't know which step to take, but they have great intentions. But I think when they have to really drop deeper into this conversation, that it's very challenging for them. And so I feel like one way that we can create change is through the reach of our agencies. That's one way, and we are trying to do that through, you know, giving our platform to minorities more than we have, and also training my team too. We've brought in an external trainer because frankly, our clients rely on us for communication and messaging. And we can't look in the mirror and feel good about providing that to them without being a minority. I mean, other than fact, that there's lots of women that work at Verde. We don't have, like, a representation that we want in terms of like people of color.

So like that's one way is just making the team more diverse and giving them resources to feel confident making requests for us to grow further, but also to be able to counsel our clients or point them in the right direction, because ultimately the reach of our clients is enormous.

So that's one way, but here's another way. And I'm not just saying this because I'm excited about this course launch that we're doing, but one of the reasons that I'm so, so, so fired up about this course is because like you, I have a feeling you've worked with that internal brand leader. That's usually who hires and manages your team. Right?

Lisa: Mhmm.

Kristin: Okay. So you've been doing this 11 years. How many of those people have been women and how many have been middle managers?

Lisa: Oh man. Very few women. Although more lately. More lately. And middle... middle management seems to be like, who ends up having to “deal with” - I say deal with - kind of the agency and the agency relationship.

Kristin: So basically I, for 20 years, have seen male and female people in that role, male or female, they've been kind of put into this container where all things marketing go. Okay.

Lisa: Yep. [laughs]

Kristin: And as we've seen everything evolve over the past five years, like more trade shows, more regional shows, e-commerce, like, not that that's only five years old, but hear me out. Like all of the transition and change. They get everything that is slugged marketing, and they get their budgets cut first. And they get memos from leadership meetings. Often times they're not in those meetings, even though they own and should be the advocate for the consumer, because that's what they do. Yet they are not given the seat at the table. The leadership table of the company. And that infuriates me, because ultimately there's a big disconnect. There's all the revenue tied to... if it's a direct first brand, it's tied to social media buys, growing an audience through social media, usually because that's who they sell to. That's the pond they fish in, and then they grow into brick and mortar. Or if you're a legacy wholesale brand, the VP of sales kind of holds the cards. Cause they're bringing in all the revenue, managing the reps. It's usually about 80 to 90% of the revenue, if it's a legacy brand, that goes into specialty retail or, you know, some sort of outdoor snow sports, bike retail.

And what COVID has done is it's completely turned that bucket upside down and shaken out all the contents. [laughs] And ultimately there really isn't a person in a lot of cases within the brands who is resourced and held up to an equal position on that leadership team that can guide the company and make recommendations on the pulse of the consumer. Yet all the consumers are now online because they have to be. See, so there's a lot of convergence happening.

And so one of the main things that we do in the Academy is we actually give them all of the tools they need to create a dashboard and to understand how to hold weekly sprint meetings, agile type of meetings around, you know, how to grow audiences, it's growth hacking, you know, how to keep the audience growing, how to nurture them and how to do ongoing, like, campaigns to grow that audience. And then to report in on the health of the consumer with the content or the selling that's happening. Right? That's one of the things we teach and it's a pretty big part of it. And that is why it's in there, is to basically elevate them so that they can like be at that meeting, start to inform the team because ultimately everybody has to be in lockstep with a consumer to have a consumer-centric brand. And right now I don't know that a lot of brands are consumer-centric more than they are channel driven. If that makes sense.

Lisa: Definitely. So you have created a solution to this broken system.

Kristin: Um, no, it's just one small step. [laughs]

Lisa: It's a step. Yeah, yeah. Wow. And so how, how can people sign up for this? You launched today, right?

Kristin: It did. And, you know, we have a ridiculously unsophisticated long URL that goes to like a course registration page. So I'd rather everybody just go to, or just to They can find what they need there to sign up for this. And we also have a bunch of free content that I think would be… I feel like we create all this content... because I'm in my basement right now in the studio and I'm not sure, you know, like, is anyone looking at this? And I know they are. ‘Cause I see like there's engagement on it. But like literally last week we held like a holiday summit with three just baller e-commerce and consumer behavior pros from like different types of businesses for different channels, other than brick and mortar retail for eCommerce. And they basically gave like an interview for free on this summit to like give people kind of look around the corner, advice on getting through the end of the year without being like promotional and, and, you know, racing to the bottom with sales and all of that. So that whole thing is about to be posted to our YouTube page.

And then we did a webinar today, which I loved and it was on - I'm such a nerd. It's on budgeting for 2021, which is like the wild, wild West, right? Like, how do you build a budget for something like that? And so I couldn't find any resources online for my leaders within our clients. And so I just researched it, talked with a lot of people and built a webinar on it and gave a free training on it today. And we have a lot more in depth training within the Academy on that. So I think that's a key part of it because you have to build the strategy and you have to build the budget and you have to have, basically, in my opinion, and from what all the research shows, you have to have kind of… I hate the words, the phrase slush fund, but you have to set aside some money so you can be agile and you have to have contingency budgets. Which nobody likes, but. Basically that whole training will be shared on social as well. And we're doing another one next week that furthers the e-commerce for specialty brands. So everything we do is like tailoring what we can find resource-wise for specialty brand leaders, because I believe that we're special snowflakes. Like we are different than like, Target. We don't go to like the big retail conferences for a reason. Right. We are not vending machines and we're not just hoarding data and like personalizing our, our automation and all of that. Like, we are literally helping people believe something in their mind they want to believe about themselves. That's what we do with specialty brands. That's what you do for sure. With the creative you, I mean, you literally… it’s like, if you can see it, you can believe it about yourself, right?

Lisa: Oh yeah.

Kristin: Super powerful. And like, we need different tools and different strategies to have that type of a connection. Our emotional connection is way different than “I can rely on Amazon Prime to ship me something in two hours and get me the lowest price.” Like, that's not the kind of emotional connection I'm talking about.

Lisa: Absolutely. The strangest thing we have seen from COVID on our client roster is all the event budgets are getting, in 2020, like, “Oh, okay, well, I have this money. I'm going to dump it into video.” And so as the agency, we are doing almost entirely video now.

Kristin: Wow.

Lisa: Just in 2020, because these budgets were already allocated for events that aren't happening. And so they've been reallocated into like long format video projects.

Kristin: I think that's - I mean, that's iteration. And I think they have to do something. They have to tell their story somehow and look at the beautiful part about that is they're not relying on, you know, a retailer to do that for them anymore. Right? Not that all of the brands were doing that, hear me, but like, I do think that there was a little bit of complacency happening around, you know, we have to protect this revenue. That's where our sales are happening. That's where our story’s being told. And then, you know, what you and I do is like, it surrounds that.

But now it seems like they're actually counting on building from the mothership of the brand, building that awareness, engagement, all of that. I think that's only going to be great to raise the level of awareness on all the channels, because ultimately the consumer doesn't give a rat's ass about the channel, right?

Lisa: Exactly.

Kristin: They just want what they want, when they want it, with the right experience. And I mean, video... what did they say like a couple of years ago, “it's going to be 80% of all online traffic.” Imagine what it really is now. I mean, I can't even imagine.

Lisa: Right? I remember hearing that stat being like, really? So people are just going to make videos with their phones? Like, you know, and yeah, of course they are.

Kristin: So I have a question for you. Are they also, like, where are they… where are they putting these videos?

Lisa: I mean YouTube is the main one, and then launching them, you know, out to their audience.

Kristin: As like a little mini campaign, like a new product.

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin: That's awesome.

Lisa: It's fun. And then, you know, doing entire serieses and campaigns, just for, you know, their existing audiences and platforms. Mostly it's like heavily, heavily Instagram based. As well as TikTok, of course. And then the longer format, high-end stuff is all, you know, special email lists and, you know, out to customers who are on their email lists and all that.

Kristin: Do you enjoy that?

Lisa: I love it. Bring on the video. It's my favorite. I think the cool thing in my opinion of video is it is everything. It's like this beautiful medium where you've got the visuals, you've got the brand story, you've got the strategy, the content writing. Like, it's just everything all at once. And it's just, it's my favorite. It's so hard. And so satisfying to get right.

Kristin: Powerful.

Lisa: Yeah. Love that stuff.

Kristin: Well, and that's what got a lot of us through being in lockdown. If not… everybody has like, you know, for me it was like cycling, right. I had nothing to watch. There were no spring classics, there was nothing happening. We couldn't do our gravel events, like, and that was work and personal. So I just started watching Red Bull TV and repeats of old races. And you name it, I would watch it. Like, I've watched some things several times and I'm really actually happy to hear that there's going to be just a lot of new content out there.

Lisa: Oh yeah. Hey, speaking of cycling, did you do the Leadville 100?

Kristin: I have completed it once. So the first year I did it was 2018 and I got 82 miles in. And then the second year I did it in 2019, I got third place in my age group.

Lisa: Yeah.

Kristin: It was awesome.

Lisa: Yeah!

Kristin: And I was supposed to do it this year and... yeah.

Lisa: That's amazing. That’s a really hard thing to do.

Kristin: Oh, I literally... it was, I would say finishing that event in 2019 was the best day of- one of the best days of my life. My daughter ran across the finish line with me. And I had 11 people from my family there crewing for me. And these people are not from our world. Like my brother, John, my crew chief is like amazing, he has a PhD in football tailgating. He lives in Houston and I was like, you're the perfect guy. And he's like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And we totally sucked our first year. And then the second year we just… we dominated. It was awesome. I actually went to the hospital the first year.

Lisa: You did?

Kristin: It's not because I crashed, I... I did something really dumb. Yeah, it's a long story, but actually, it was really hot and I ate extra electrolyte pills and not enough water because Fatty on the Leadville podcast said he was going to do that. And I was like, well, that must be what I should do. And at the time we were working with GU, like what a dumb ass move. But anyway, I went back and rectified it the next year. It was fine.

Lisa: [laughs] I mean, yeah, 82 miles. You're pretty much there anyway.

Kristin: I kind of felt like that, I could have literally walked to the finish line if I was able to stand up, but I couldn't. And then last year I actually got to do Steamboat Gravel the very next weekend. That was one of our clients and a very fun launch. So I did those two back-to-back and then I was pretty tired. [laughs]

Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot.

Kristin: But I love, love, love, love, love exercising and fitness and long distance in the mountains. Anything I can do. I love. That's my thing. How about you? What do you love to do?

Lisa: I love mountain biking very, very much. And then I live in Whitefish, Montana, and so we have all this rugged, rural, you know, kind of unmarked terrain. And so I love giant adventure suffer rides, where you carry your bike on your back for like, you know, 3000 vertical feet. And then you find the trail.

Kristin: I would love that. So Whitefish. I have been looking at Whitefish because I love Durango. I've been here 26 years. Right. I'm... having spent 25 days in Bozeman or traveling up and back to Bozeman this summer. ‘Cause I was up there twice, depositing Tobin Ogden up there. [laughs] And literally, like, I have been looking around, like, Whitefish is the town I would want to live in. But when I look at like, I'm like, Oh, maybe not. Like, it looks like it's pretty spendy, but maybe it isn't. Maybe that's just what they have for sale. But that looks like a beautiful, idyllic... Like, I can't even, it just looks amazing where you live. I really want to go spend time there.

Lisa: It's cool here. Yeah. And we have an office in downtown Whitefish. It's adorable. Which brings me to my question to you that I'm so curious is how do you feel about the remote office versus the brick and mortar for Verde and for like your personal stance on remote working versus the advantages of an office?

Kristin: Well, Lisa, I love working from home. Okay. Part of the reason that I love working from home is because... you know, I've raised kids while I've had this business. And so I can work weird hours and everything works. When I've had to go into an office - so we've had offices here on and off in Durango - I don't like it very much.

And a lot of my employees either like living on the road, visiting different cities, where we have clusters of people, or like, I have a couple people who really love working together. And they're all in Boulder. So we've always kept an office there. But, for example, our Jackson office, we only had one person, Dave Simpson, who really wanted an office there. Nobody else really did. So we don't have an office. We have an office for him, we pay for like him to be in a little shared office. But like, you hear where I'm going? Like, I kind of feel like it's more about the people.

And one thing that COVID has pointed out is that frankly, like the way we've done it here at Verde is fine. And a lot of companies you're now doing it this way. One thing I am just delighted about is I haven't had to deal with traveling. Like, that's been a big pain in my butt for a long time in terms of flying in and out of these little airports and getting stuck in Phoenix and Denver and blah, blah, blah. Like, I love not having to do that. And so the more remote the better, but I also know it will be important to see people in person at some point. And I'm hoping that'll be through awesome endurance events and not things like trade shows, you know?

Lisa: Right. Yeah.

Kristin: [laughs] How about you? Are you having issues with that or?

Lisa: Well, it's an interesting... so I've been spending a lot of time reflecting on the office. ‘Cause I just like you, I love working from home and kind of having that freedom to live the lifestyle that I enjoy as well. But for a while, we, for one full year we had an office in downtown Denver as well as here in Whitefish. And that, to me, was like, when I really felt like I was leading the company out of alignment with how I wanted to live my life. You know, and having a full... like, our Denver office was bigger than our Whitefish office. And I was just miserable. I was driving back and forth, living out of a suitcase, like a carny, doing that 16 hour drive to Denver all the time.

Kristin: That sounds awful.

Lisa: It was awful, you know? And then that's when I was like, well, let's... let's try more remote-style positions. And that's been... I think it's, there are the challenges that are like, you know, of collaboration and being able to like work on something with someone directly. But I think overall I prefer it. Even though some of our creative team loves the in-person collaboration.

Yeah. It's just an interesting balance to play with. Yeah.

Kristin: I think you should be true to yourself and do what enables you to be, you know, the woman that you need to be to lead the company, frankly. Because if mama ain't happy, ain't no one happy, right? Like that's really true in terms of us. [laughs] ‘Cause I'm not sure a lot of people realize like how much of our lives go into running these companies as women leaders in these markets. And I'm sure it's the same for men, but like I can only speak for females and having families and all this other stuff. So yeah. I don’t know. I'm hoping that COVID will end up being a great thing for you. And I do... I have told people just outright, I'm not going back to business travel the way it was. I won't, I just won't do it.

Lisa: Mmm. Yeah.

Kristin: So that's not going to happen. But I did get a TAXA Outdoor Cricket overland trailer earlier this year, Verde did. And I've been using that thing a lot. And I'm planning on taking that up to Steamboat this weekend, because a dear friend of mine who was a former client, Mark Sakowitz (sp), who passed away at the beginning of August, we're having a little celebration of life for him up there. So I'm going to take that up there and, you know, see some clients on the way home. And I have my own little place to stay. It's cool. It's like the coolest little trailer ever. It really is.

Lisa: Yeah.

Kristin: They're great for podcasting, P.S.

Lisa: Oh, yeah. Crawling in there, fully insulated. [laughs]

Kristin: It really is, like, I guess a lot of people bought them for offices, for their mother-in-laws, for creating content, like ,during COVID. They literally are sold through, I think till the middle of next year.

Lisa: That's amazing.

Kristin: I know and it's such a cool little product made right in Houston.

Lisa: Huh. Cool. Well, I could talk to you forever.

Kristin: I know, me too. [laughs]

Lisa: I have so much respect for what you've done with Verde and raised a family and yeah, I think you're a badass.

Kristin: Well the same goes for you.

Lisa: [laughs] Is there anything I haven't asked you that you want to tell our audience?

Kristin: Well, number one, I have a feeling that you probably don't give yourself a lot of props and I want to just say you are a path burner. And what you've created and holding the fort down and growing it over 11 years is something to be very, very proud of. And I want you to also buckle your seatbelt because I have a feeling with the onslaught of newcomers to outdoor and cycling. And we're seeing strong sales in sleds, backcountry, everything already. Like, to the point of March of last year, we've already created like more sales, I think in some of the side country and backcountry categories of hard goods. Like we are, you know, what you would do and what we do to a sense, but like the visual backdrop that you create and the story you create with visuals, I think your business is probably going to explode here. I really do. So I hope that you are ready ‘cause you do a great job.

Lisa: Well, thank you. Oh man. Thanks so much. Yeah, Kristin, thank you so much for your time. Where can we send people to follow you?

Kristin: Well, I'm kind of, like, older, so I love LinkedIn. I am on Instagram as @kc.carpediem, and then on LinkedIn, I'm Kristin Carpenter. I am on Twitter, but my handle sucks and I don't... I'm like more of a lurker. I love Twitter, but I don't post very often. And then Are really kind of the places to find everything. But just like Lisa, everybody, like, podcasting is amazing and she does a great job and that's just something, you know, the more you can listen to leaders like Lisa on podcasts, or maybe what we provide in the interviews... Like, I think the more…. that's where I think a lot of the innovation is happening are the conversations that we're having on these shows. Don’t you think?

Lisa: I do. I do. And I love, I love Channel Mastery. I love your podcast. So we will absolutely include notes in there.

Kristin: Thanks. I appreciate that. It's been so awesome to connect. Thank you so much. I'm honored to be on your show.

Iris: Thank you, so much for joining us on Outside by Design today, Kristin. I love this episode. I know our listeners will too.

Lisa: Yeah. Big time thank you, Kristin. You're awesome.

Iris: And to our listeners out there, if you haven't left us a review in your podcast app yet, please do it. Helps us reach more people. And also we just enjoy reading them. So let us know what you think about the show.

And if you haven't yet, please subscribe. And you can find us on instagram @wheeliecreative and at There you can find all our old episodes, podcast transcripts, show links, all the good stuff.

Lisa: We'll see you next week. And thank you for listening and thanks for letting us be between your ears, going through your brain. Bye.

Iris: Bye.

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